by Silver Flex SEL. When you have contaminated transmission fluid that has bits of this and that in it This is an indication that you have bigger problems inside the converter or transmission. Therefore, a lockup clutch needs to be accompanied by some mechanism to selectively engage or disengage the clutch. I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. If you delete or disable these cookies, your existing preferences will be lost and you may not be able to save your privacy settings for this website. For all the administrative and login cookies described here, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash while "UID" will be the administrative user's user ID number in this website's WordPress database. This is a red flag that lets you know you may need an expert to repair it for you. Torque Converter Engaged while pulling??? All other trademarks and/or service marks are the property of their respective owners. At idle and very low road speeds, slippage is desirable because it keeps the engine from stalling or lugging in gear. Packard achieved that goal by treating the engagement of the lockup clutch like an automatic gear change. In certain cases, multiple iterations of either or both of these cookies may be set. Those gear ratios were in addition to the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter. I would suggest starting with the transmission upper mount and also a transmission fluid drain and fill. Most street torque converters tend to operate in the 3 to 5 percent slippage range, but this can go as high as 8 percent. That drum is connected via overrunning clutch (fuchsia) to the rear sun gear (purple), which is also attached to the inner race of a second overrunning clutch (also fuchsia). Torque converter problems have a high impact on your car's ability to function and drive. Change Background Color (Note: This option sets cookies on your device to manage your color settings; see the Cookie Notice for details.). Tuning. Manage Preferences - Ate Up With Motor and its embedded content providers may use cookies and/or similar technologies and collect personal information about site visitors as described in the Privacy Policy and Cookie Notice. So far the bogging down hasn't happened since last week. another masterpiece. This created the demand for a lockup converter employing an internal clutch inside the converter to directly connect the turbine with the input shaft of the transmission just like a manual-transmission clutch. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. (author diagram). There are tried and true methods for fixing the five common torque converter issues. Performance & security by Cloudflare. The cookies are not set at all unless you select that option when submitting a comment. If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. The torque converter is made up of five parts: 1. Logging in sets the wordpress_logged_in_xx, wordpress_sec_xx, and/or wordpress_xx cookies, which store the user's login credentials to allow access to the administrative dashboard and other administrative functions; there may be multiple iterations of each cookie. After logging in, the wp-settings-UID cookies store the logged-in user's configuration settings, while the wp-settings-time-UID cookies record the time those configuration settings were last set; again, there may be multiple iterations of each of these cookies, which normally expire after about one year. It will read really high numbers until the converter is locked. ), These cookies were previously used by the Google Analytics service to collect information about visitors and their use of the Ate Up With Motor website. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. 2011 Flex Limited AWD EcoBoost - Mediterranean Blue Metallic/Silver Roof. Over 10 RPM is real slip. U.S. Pat. The TC is a viscous coupling. Your IP: The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. This overran the rear unit planet carrier, unlocking the rear sun gears one-way clutch and putting the transmission in direct drive. It stayed there(18.24) from 60mph to 90 when I let off of it. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. The image file itself contains no personally identifiable information, but the loading of that file may be used to help identify and/or track you. In first and second gears, the converter turbine drove the front annulus (ring gear). When you coast in gear, the transmission attempts to drive the engine crankshaft, whose inertia causes a braking effect. If your car transmission keeps overheating, you may also notice your transmission starts to act funny, or it may even go into fail date and stay in one gear and not shift at all. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! This is most noticeable from about 1200-1800 rpm. :whs: I was seeing 200-300 on the 310 with the stock converter but still felt really strong! When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. (At this point, an updated, expanded edition wouldnt go amiss, given all the subsequent development in CVTs and automatics with five or more speeds.). I had just bought an SCT with Gearhead tunes. The trans temp was never above 160 degrees. However, the cookie may remain on your device for as long as the settings of your browser (or other user agent) permit. Well Aaron . .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. One thing Ive always wondered about was if any manufacturers looked into Wilson pre-selector gearboxes as a basis of an automatic. These early units operated on the same principal of using one electric fan to drive another. We thought 10 was bad 2 years ago. There is more demand in today's market for increased comfort and safety in cars. Torque converter clutch slip Scan tool values 99 GMC Pickup GM's 6L80 HP Tuning, DoD, and Torque Converters! This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. But the catch is that this torque multiplication doesn't last very long. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! Your torque converter is full of fluid, and its jobis to act as a hydraulic pump and acts as a coupling between the engine and the transmission. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. Just thought I would share with everyone some recent learnings I've had with my 2010 EB Flex. This is a remarkably broad, convoluted, and idiosyncratic field and theres a LOT I dont know. You also need to move forward with viable options that will help you get your torque converter fixed. With a plate clutch, that effect is often quite pronounced, especially in a reduction gear, because of the mechanical connection between the engine flywheel and the transmission input shaft; neither can overrun the other. Some electrical tape and some plastic wire loom may solve your issue entirely. Currently the vehicle is much better to drive. 91.234.33.200 When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. check trans fluid. I would be surprised if this is your issue at 81,000 miles. For more information, please see our Estimate Converter Slip. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post would it work,yet throw out aod default codes. Third, make sure that your engine is running right because a transmission chuggle can be caused by many things. Once the brakes (or the transbrake) is released and the vehicle begins to move, the turbine spins up and the speed difference between the two diminishes. This sounds really great, and it is. The logic of these schematics, which are not to scale and which have been greatly simplified for clarity, is that each color represents a set of components that are integral or otherwise connected so that they always rotate together; clutches, brake bands, planet pinions, and flywheels are shown in black or gray. Unsurprisingly, each engagement or disengagement of the lockup clutch felt like a shift, giving less technically knowledgeable drivers the mistaken impression that Ultramatic was a two-speed automatic. (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. My truck was still putting down 575 on Dunbar's dyno with 100 RPM of slip.. im seeing 20rpm slip at most on my KEM 345, i know thats different. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. Overdrive ratios drive the torque converter at speeds generally below normal coupling speed, creating increased slippage and heat, which is unacceptable. Performance & security by Cloudflare. by SirHandyMan Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm, Post Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. Its free and only takes a minute, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. I think you probably have some time as long as you dont pound on it. 1. and 2. When starting, the fluid clutchs driving torus (the impeller) may reach a speed of 2,000 rpm or more before the driven torus (the turbine) begins to move at all, a point known as stall. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC.). Turbine speed tends to fall behind impeller speed any time load increases (for example, when going up a steep grade) and an increase in engine speed doesnt immediately produce a corresponding increase in turbine speed. A torque converter clutch (TCC) is an important element of automatic transmissions because it affects fuel economy and driveability. (For this cookie, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) I did the trans relearn today with the Spartan 275 tune. 4. . Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. Your email address will not be published. Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:22 am, You need to be a member in order to post a reply, Not a member? Think of it this way, a well built converter, 10" may slip 4-5%, if yours slips 6-7% higher, you are baking the fluid, cooking the band, and compromising the clutches, and giving up mph and ET. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. Advertising - & Tm. Dr. Tranny helped for a short time and then the car became entirely undriveable. This very similar to what I experienced with my failure. Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. The turbine drives the front annulus through the input shaft (medium blue). This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. That should make you and your car happy. Almost no one thinks of it, but when you drive your automatic transmission car, you're master over your cars torque converter. Cookies whose names begin with "optimizely" are associated with the Optimizely digital experience platform (which is subject to the Optimizely Privacy Policy; the "Privacy" section of the Optimizely Trust Center provides additional information about Optimizely privacy practices, including a link to the Data Processing Agreement that applies to personal data the Optimizely services process on customers' behalf that may be subject to certain regional privacy and/or data protection laws, while their "Cookies and localStorage in the Optimizely snippet" help page provides additional technical information about the cookies and/or similar technologies used by that platform). Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, Re: Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.co 733.0.html. The combination of a smaller-diameter and lighter converter means that less engine torque is required for acceleration. It's also important not to undersell converter weight as a contributing factor to maximizing acceleration. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. Larger-diameter converters are usually more efficient and deliver less slippage, while smaller-diameter converters offer more stall speed and more slippage. But Ive never heard of anyone going that route. Contaminated transmission fluid can cause damage to your converter parts and your transmissions parts. (We have now DISCONTINUED our use of Google Analytics tracking on this website; see the "Online Tracking" section of the Privacy Policy for more information.) but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. These cookies manage your cookie and privacy preferences. The reason for increasing stall speed is directly related to the engine's torque curve. Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. Once engaged, the lockup clutch simply drove the output shaft at engine speed (not turbine speed). A flyweight 2,800-pound car like an early Mustang or Chevy II could use less multiplication to successfully launch on their relatively smaller rear tires. Wallace Racing BACK to Auto Math. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. This will cause damage to both the transmission and the converter. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. Your email address will not be published. I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. Introduced for the 1950 model year, Studebakers Automatic Drive was developed in partnership with Borg-Warner and was more broadly known as the DG series, after the Borg-Warner Detroit Gear Division that did much of the development work. Clutch material, bearing and bushing pieces, and a shiny metal flake appearance will be an indicator that things are coming apart inside. Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. A multi-disc clutch can lock that carrier to the front sun gear, which is also attached to the rear brake drum (dark red). (Both turbines, here colored medium blue, were bolted together into a single unit, but had different blade profiles.) The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. The usual strategy is to disengage the clutch at idle (or just off idle) and during acceleration and then then engage the clutch for cruising. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm not familiar with your specific transmission. If you use the buttons to make a payment or donation, the PayPal services will set additional cookies (not listed here) to manage your PayPal login and transaction data (and potentially also for various other purposes, e.g., user analytics and/or advertising). I purchased my car 3 weeks ago from a new car dealership.. Many aftermarket companies offer performance lockup torque converters that can provide a higher stall speed without sacrificing the advantages of the lockup converter for highway use. Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). sir im having an issue with my 93 f150 aod. There are many different types oftorque converter problems. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. This and the GM automatic history are probably the most definitive descriptions of these technologies on the Internet, excepting pure design and engineering treatises. its the mechanically controlled aod. Theshuddering makes the car lagand is very noticeable. Since the transmission was largely dependent on the torque converter for torque multiplication, it was crucial that the lockup clutch not engage prematurely and that there be some means to immediately disengage it for acceleration. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. With automated hydraulic operation and combinations of brakes and clutches, it was possible to get the same results more efficiently. To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. (author diagram). In this diagram, the yellow arrows show the power flow in second gear. I changed to the Spartan V2 a few weeks ago. Comments may be moderated. They may persist for up to two years. As you can see I was experiencing multiple issues, all of which were exacerbating the clutch slippage and/or shuddering issue. In order to get a realistic value, use: Your finish line MPH (from ET slip) Your finish line RPM. It took the addition of a small device called the stator to increase the efficiency of the fluid coupling and transform it into a torque converter. For more information about how Akamai may collect, process, and/or use personal data, visit the Akamai "Privacy and Policies" page and Privacy Trust Center. In a car with a good suspension and sticky tires, you can use extra rpm to put the engine closer to its torque peak, launching the car even more quickly. One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. For most hot street engines, converters in the 2,200 to 2,600-rpm range are considered streetable but will still require a very efficient trans cooler to keep them out of the heat zone. These cookies are necessary for the site's administrative users (who wouldn't even be able to log in without them), but if you are not an administrative user, these cookies aren't normally placed on your device at all unless you somehow access the login area, which is off-limits to non-administrators. Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. Torque converters can be serviced or replaced as a single unit. You can hide the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box and prevent the loading of its embedded content by going to the "Consent Management" tab and switching the "Allow PayPal Button" toggle to "OFF." With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed. We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. Your IP: Okay, so it sounds like you were able to identify a potential root cause. The clutch plate itself, which was faced on both sides with cork, was splined at its hub to the transmission input shaft. You only monitor it when the converter is locked. The lockup clutch control valve, not pictured, allows pressurized oil to enter the clutch cylinder through a hollow passage within the input shaft, pushing the pressure plate (colored red, like the torus cover and impeller it rotates with) into the engaged position. To learn more about the specific cookies used and/or to fine-tune your available choices, click "Privacy Preferences" at the right. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. (At present, this setting does NOT affect the payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the site's administrative dashboard, nor does hiding the box affect any cookies that may have already been set). Ive been troubleshooting a low RPM with light acceleration shudder on my 2011 EcoBoost Flex. I changed the transmission fluid (Mercon LV) at 63k miles back in 2017. New to the site and found it because of this read. Although torque converters are ideal launch devices for. Privacy Policy. Lockup clutches were used in some nonautomotive torque converters before World War II, but the first regular-production automotive application was the 1949 Packard Ultramatic Drive, which established a model for subsequent transmission designs. To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. The turbine and lockup clutch driven plate are both splined to the transmission input shaft (medium blue). When the two problems are combined, it could mean your torque converter is failing. A tracking pixel, sometimes known as a web beacon, is a tiny image file that loads from a remote server; it's a type of embedded content (as is the button itself, which loads from the same domain). In first, the low band and one-way clutches held both sun gears, causing the ring gears to drive the planet carrier and output shaft at 43.3% of turbine speed (1 / 2.31). The cookies normally expire in about 10 days, and are not set at all if you do not access any password-protected content.
Belleville, Wi Football Roster,
Does Janner Die In The Wingfeather Saga,
University Of Pittsburgh School Of Medicine Observership,
Land For Sale By Owner In Mcdowell County, Nc,
Articles T
torque converter slip actual vs desired